[Placebo]

I know it seems like a dumb question, but how do you mix Attack?

Bearing in mind, every gym I go to has either one CD turntable or a DVD player. The one that I can use my mp3 at doesn't have Attack :roll:

Whilst I mix Combat and Pump, I am new to teaching Attack, so would like some pointers in which tracks to start mixing.

I thought I would do 62 from 1-4, then mix in 58 - 5,6 and 7, then back to 62. Is this a good start? Then what do you mix, do you keep 58 - 5,6 and 7 and mix in 8 and 9 the next week?

I trained on 61 and still have not got my own class (lots of fill-ins though).

Would appreciate the help [-o< so I don't look like a complete idiot

[Special]

If I couldn't use Ipod (and I can't at one gym at the moment) I'd burn a CD for each Attack class. I hate stopping and starting and there is no way I would finish on time if I was messing with CDs.

I generally keep 1-3 from the same release, but sometimes towards the end of mixing time that gets muddled. 1 and 2 from the same release tend to go together.

Since all Attack music sounds the same I concentrate on moves when mixing. I don't want an 8 and 9 that both have run forward and 4 kicks, or sometimes you can end up with side flicks in heaps of tracks. I check that track 4 and 9 work together so if one has lunges the other doesn't.

Other than that I don't worry about what release it comes from. My Attack classes are so random.

Your plan sounds fine.

[Placebo]

Thanks Special, that's the info I needed :-D

[gepl]

In my humble opinion BA 58 track 7 has too similar moves to BA 62 tracks 4 and 9...

[john]

To add to the original question:

here people are used doing a single BA class a week and we are allowed to mix about 8 weeks after relaunch.

In that regard I usually set up 1 mix which I use that last few weeks. It's a change and without constantly chainging it people can get used to the 'new' tracks and feel comfortable.

Mind, to my knowledge is the fact that people know what to expect in their class a major LM program asset.

But then again: local/national insights may vary.

Most important is that you try to be aware of the wants and needs of your participants.

Good luck on your mixing!

[Special]

I only teach one Attack a week, and after the initial run of a new release I mix in tracks and try to give each track 2-3 weeks. Maybe it is just what my class is used to, but any more than that and it starts to drag - and they do let me know if they've had enough of a song. They get a class where at least half is familiar from the week before, and some of it is a bit new and shiny.

Attack is simple chorrey to follow, especially since most tracks have 3 rounds the same. I don't think you could over mix Attack. For me the music plays a huge part in Attack... it's what puts me in the mood to work harder. So I like to keep it fresh.

[john]

I've read that mixing policy before. It must be an aussie / nz thing.

We aren't allowed to mix within 8 weeks, so instead of refreshing the music to avoid that it becomes a drag we need to refresh our presenting.

[Mel]

ahhhh, mixing............this is a personal gripe of mine I'm living right now, lol.

I've been both here and there......yes the culture is different. Does it have to be? Personally I don't think so.

For those that don't know I've just moved from Australia to The Netherlands, and they don't mix here. The gym I participate at does 2-3 weeks of "greatest hits" and the rest of the time it's the same release.

There's several problems with this:

1) it goes against Les Mills recommendations which say to being changing 1 or 2 tracks within 2-4 weeks.
2) it doesn't allow affective progression of execerises
3) people get bored


Do participants here get bored? The ones I've spoken to do, yes. It may not be much to go on, but my observations towards the end of the release period numbers were way down. Mixing week began and numbers were up. Could be concidence as there were school holidays in there somewhere too.

Do instructors here get bored? The ones I've spoken to do, yes. Of course, there's plenty of people at the gym I haven't spoken to.......but still.

Who works out hard when they're bored of the music? You push yourself harder when it's fresh and interesting. Yes of course there are the benefits of prechoreography, but as long as you don't change your mix TOO much, people should be still benefitting from prechoreography from the old releases too, since most people will have done them before aswell. Knowing what's coming up next isn't the ONLY benefit of prechoreography. That's just one angle that Les Mills pitch to gyms. The major benefit is actually standardisation across gyms and improvement of instructors. At least, it's this that gave Phillip Mills the whole idea in the first place. He used to teach freestyle aerobics in his own gym, and he didn't like the varying quality of the instructors, so he wrote some chorrey and made all his instructors teach it...........this is how BODYATTACK was born (he told me himself when I had lunch with him once).

Progression of exercises - as a PT you learn that you need to change an exercise around every 4 weeks otherwise the body adapts and gets more efficient at the exercise and you get less out of it. From an evolutionary perspective, the body needs to adapt to situations and stimulus, the body is always busy making things easier for itself, since it needs to conserve energy (well that's the way it used to be). Heck, when I go to the gym and bust my gut I wanna know I'm getting the most out of it!

Now that doesn't really answer Placebo's question I know sorry.........but just a personal gripe I have here in The Netherlands at the moment.


Placebo, yeah attack is difficult to mix. Like special said you have to be careful not to mix tracks which have similar moves. It's also really important to not have things like tuck jumps or plyo lunges twice in a release since sometimes they can put these in different tracks. A little bit more thought has to go into mixing attack.

[john]

That's not all entirely so I'm afraid

To start with there are quite some quality differences between gyms here.. ;-)

But basicly:

- LM NL does recommend mixing only after 6 to 8 weeks, depending participation frequency. To illustrate: LM NZ does mix after 2 to 4 weeks, but people there are doing 2 or even more of the same classes a week.
- progressions of exercise: we do recommend doing several programs a week.
- it's true that people get bored and numbers are down until the mixing starts. But that's where the instructors comes in. My numbers are usually up in that period. ATM I am educating my collegues about how the keep their numbers up in the so-called boredom-period' using the own personality while presenting and mixing tools.

But at the end of the day it all comes down to the assesment of the instructor which way would work for his/hers class. Even in a particular gym different timeslots may need different aproach.

Many roads lead to Rome they say :biggrin:

Mel, on Sep 30 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

Placebo, yeah attack is difficult to mix. Like special said you have to be careful not to mix tracks which have similar moves. It's also really important to not have things like tuck jumps or plyo lunges twice in a release since sometimes they can put these in different tracks. A little bit more thought has to go into mixing attack.

Fot that matter, I have found it very usefull to make a chorry grid which shows all distinctive or potentially hazardous moves.

Help to build a mix pretty effective, for instance: making sure double knee/crossovers are in track 3 or 4 if you do crossovers and a turn in track 9: this will help to set the more complicated move using an early track.

[Mel]

john, on Sep 30 2008, 09:27 PM, said:

- LM NL does recommend mixing only after 6 to 8 weeks, depending participation frequency. To illustrate: LM NZ does mix after 2 to 4 weeks, but people there are doing 2 or even more of the same classes a week.

where is that info from John? Because the official international LM guidelines are 2-4 weeks. From memory I think it was published in Revolution a while back, which is a mag servicing Australia and Asia.

I think it's wrong to compare with LM-WOF in Auckland. Sure they have 2 studios and lots of classes, but they do have other gyms. And also, the Les Mills gym in Auckland once started off as a small studio that only fit 17 people in it. If they've grown to the point they can hold 200 odd people in their GF room then they must be doing something right

Quote

- progressions of exercise: we do recommend doing several programs a week.

That's not what progression is, that's just variety of exercises. To explain what progression is, as a PT you might do this with a new client: starting off with the bench press on a machine and "upgrading" the exercise every 4 weeks.

bench press machine -> bench press bar -> bench press dumbells -> single arm bench press - > flies -> etc

This person might also be running, or biking or doing other weights, but that's not the point. It's each exercise that needs to be progressed.

That's just an example with a single move for a newbie. Let's use a body builder instead as an example, they might progress with reps:

12-15 reps -> 6-8 reps -> 1-5 reps

Or you could progress with speed:

3 down, 3 hold, 3 up -> 2/0/2 - > 1/3/1 -> 1/0/1

Or it can progress in a random order:

6-8 reps -> 20 reps -> 1-5 reps

Depends on your training regieme. There's no real right or wrong, just as long as YOU CHANGE IT EVERY 4 weeks.


Take the person who only does Les Mills classes. Even if they do a variety of programs, if they're doing the same release for too long they're body will get used to it.

My favourite quote: "If nothing changes then nothing ever changes"

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- it's true that people get bored and numbers are down until the mixing starts. But that's where the instructors comes in. My numbers are usually up in that period. ATM I am educating my collegues about how the keep their numbers up in the so-called boredom-period' using the own personality while presenting and mixing tools.

think how good you could be, and how many members you could get in if you could mix sooner
Imagine how it would feel if, not only do you keep the numbers up, but also you've got people being turned away at the door. Or more.........what potential is there to increase numbers further?


To be honest there is no scientific basis for using the same release for so long. The only people it benefits are the people who don't go every week.........aren't we trying to get those people to come every week and work out regularly? Sometimes it's hard to get motivated, we have to make it easy for people to exercise every week.....then they'll get hooked. By making them bored (good instructor or not), is that really productive towards getting high rentention rates in the gym? Does that get people in a regular routine? Some people will still go, cuz they're already hooked, and they seek out classes like yours. But what about the rest of them?

[john]

Mel, on Sep 30 2008, 02:23 PM, said:

where is that info from John? Because the official international LM guidelines are 2-4 weeks. From memory I think it was published in Revolution a while back, which is a mag servicing Australia and Asia.

Like i posted: this came from LM NL adressing the LMI guideline that isn't fit to the dutch market, simply as circumstances here a different.

Quote

That's not what progression is, that's just variety of exercises.

Varying programs does get progression. We are not talking weights here. :tongue:

Quote

think how good you could be, and how many members you could get in if you could mix sooner
Imagine how it would feel if, not only do you keep the numbers up, but also you've got people being turned away at the door. Or more.........what potential is there to increase numbers further?

I my gyms you don't get more people in by mixing. You only get more people by delivering a superior class.

And once there in, then avoid boredom. Music is a tool. An entertaining instructor is a better and lasting mean.

But please let my insights not keep you from mixing early .. :twisted:

Anyway, you may to spend more time in dutch gyms before really understanding the diffrence with Oz. Basicly the problem is alike, but as people and statistics are different, the solutions are different aswell.

BTW I don't want people being turned away at the door: once they're gone they will never return. O, maybe once. But thats where it ends for then. People here just hate such things.

[Special]

john, on Sep 30 2008, 09:57 PM, said:

- it's true that people get bored and numbers are down until the mixing starts.

I figure if I can just avoid this situation, then why wouldn't I? You are talking about solutions to a problem you don't need to have.

I think the best instructors and the happiest classes are the ones that work together. I don't have set mixing rules for each program, it varies between classes and gyms. I don't care whether I mix or not - I do care that the people in my class are enjoying it so I follow their ideas.
My Tuesday morning "mums" class (step) like to learn the routine pretty well so they get an average of 4 or more weeks.
Another gym I used to work at had a bunch of very experienced Steppers and they were happy if half the songs were new each week. They still remembered all the moves. That was a nice easy class to teach.

[john]

Special, on Sep 30 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

I figure if I can just avoid this situation, then why wouldn't I?

Yep, basicly I agree. But maybe I should have explicitly put in the word 'can' get bored and numbers 'can' get down.. :mrgreen:

But again, no one has to have to take my insights on board.

Just do what think you need to do.

I am moving on.

[Mel]

john, on Sep 30 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

Varying programs does get progression. We are not talking weights here. :tongue:

no no, that's absolutely not progression. I musn't have explained it properly. It's about adaptation over time.

Quote

I my gyms you don't get more people in by mixing. You only get more people by delivering a superior class.

of course.............but if you add in fresh and interesting music all the better.

Quote

BTW I don't want people being turned away at the door: once they're gone they will never return. O, maybe once. But thats where it ends for then. People here just hate such things.

I'm not sure if you've missed my point or you're just being funny. All gym rooms have an upper limit of how many people can fit into the room. At some gyms in Adelaide it's not uncommon for the class to be so packed that they can't allow any more people in. It means that people try and get there early just to get in. Maybe it's because of the interesting music

[Nick in NZ]

8 weeks of doing the same release, then 2-3 weeks of mixing??? that sounds terrible in my opinion.... If I went to the same class (either Attack / Combat / Pump...) and they played the same tracks every time for 8 weeks, I'd go nuts and I wouldn't enjoy that at all.

I don't think it matters how superior the class is or how good you are as an instructor - if you are playing the same music for 8 weeks, then the participants will get bored - well I would anyway...

I don't know what the 'official' policy is for LM New Zealand or anywhere else for that matter, but things are different here in Christchurch.

For example, we have 3 Body Combat instructors and 2 of them learnt and taught the New Release BC37, so for about 2-3 weeks before the release, these instructors would 'preview' 1 or 2 tracks from the new release in their regular class, then we had 'launch day' where the whole release was done - then for about 2-3 weeks afterwards the instructors did most of the New Release in their regular class, and have now started mixing. The other instructor has now also learnt the New Release and is throwing in some New Release tracks in her class.

I think variety is the key - from a participants point of view.... if you give them the same tracks all the time (even if they are from the Latest Release) then they will get bored really quickly.

I personally like it when an instructor will bring out a couple of older tracks from 3-4 years ago and throw them in the mix

that's my 2.5c worth anyway :biggrin:

[kt74]

Special, on Sep 29 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

I concentrate on moves when mixing. I don't want an 8 and 9 that both have run forward and 4 kicks, or sometimes you can end up with side flicks in heaps of tracks. I check that track 4 and 9 work together so if one has lunges the other doesn't.

For this reason (and because of the "press play" principle), I tend to try to keep to whole releases or big blocks of the same CD when mixing Attack - or at least try to do 1-9 with minimal substitutes (well, I might replace 1 or 2 tracks if members really hate them)... I don't always succeed, mind you, but I do try!

Although it's harder for the instructor to have to keep re-learning old CDs, I find it's actually easier for the members, as (a) the progression of moves usually works fairly effectively within any one release, and ( they (subconsciously?) remember/recognise the sequence of tracks/moves from when they did the CD the first time around. That also means that you can mix more aggressively from week-to-week, as there is less of the "constantly learning this mix for the first time" issue that can come with mixing, because I have almost always already done that mix with them before


Now, regarding the "when should you mix" debate, which I know rages all over Les Mills forums everywhere, my view is that instructors should ask their participants. My members tend to fall into one of two categories:

(1) ultra-frequent members who do 3-4 classes of the same programme a week, usually in the same timeslots - they get bored, so they are the first to ask me to mix, and they often have a pretty good idea of which releases they do or don't want to hear again!

(2) members who might go to 1-2 classes in a *really good* week, usually in different timeslots depending on when they are free, and then they might get busy and not get to the gym for a couple of weeks. All these members care about is getting a fun, effective workout, and they are never around consistently enough to appreciate the difference between an old release and a new release

As a result, I mix pretty quickly and pretty aggressively - after the 3-5 week launch, it's a different mix every week - that keeps group (1) happy (if there's a song they hate, they will never hear it two weeks in a row) while group (2) doesn't care so long as they get a great workout

YMMV, but that's what works for my members, so that's what I give them

[gepl]

kt74, I'd love to be part of your classes. I'm a typical (1) member who gets bored after a month of the new release. I then struggle the next month and start to drop classes after the third month of the same release. Really frustrating, even more so because all three instructors don't care learning the choreo 100% (Tips on the DVD don't exist for them + I'm sure they don't even open the written notes)... That's our local BA. ](*,)

BP, on the other hand, is something completely different. Instructors listen to participants (at least to me) and start to mix after a month. They even let me compile the mixes. :smug:

[Placebo]

Okaaaay, so with all that info on board, this is my mix for tonight 8-[

BA 62 first peak, BA 58 second peak. Done and dusted

And this is my last class for this particular club. Apparently they want a 'certified' instructor (not one that just trained), despite my numbers starting at 14, and climbing to 25 within three weeks :roll: Oh well, that's life, one door closes, another opens :biggrin:

[Special]

That's just silly Placebo. You will be a certified Instructor if they give you a little bit of time.

Slightly off topic, but that's the first I've heard of a gym requiring certification. Maybe it is just the gyms around here are slack, but half of them wouldn't even know what certification means.

[Placebo]

I think someone up top has a bit of a bee in their bonnet about it. It was the same when I first trained in Combat, no certification, no work.

I can understand them wanting at least one program certified (due to Fitness Australia insurance for prechoreographed instructors). But, I know, it seems a bit over the top. I'm sure in about six months, the 'rules' will change again.

Had a great class though and the participants had fun (esp with "Chelsea Dagger"), and that's what counts. Good to go out with a bang! :biggrin: